My Big Mistake and the Start of a New Search

There is a big black hole in time which exists when somebody is born prior to the start of censuses. After that point you can be guided by where they live, who they live with and confirmation is backed up by obtaining birth/baptism certificates giving parents names if you are lucky, marriage certificates giving addresses, occupations, fathers names and occupations, and death certificates often giving surprises when it's discovered who registered the death.

When you find somebody in the early censuses, assumptions are often made about the parentage, this is what I did. I was fairly sure that I had connected my 3 x Great Grandfather Richard Lunt to the correct father, Luke Lunt of Low Hill Liverpool. Unfortunately at the time that Richard married Hannah Forshaw parents names were not given on the marriage certificate, which was of course the first pitfall.

Following is the story of what I'm now sure is the correct line since I have so much more evidence than before.

My family is fully documented back to Thomas Lunt who married Ellen Richardson on 18th January, 1838 in St James, Toxteth Park, and who lived in Deys Lane and Deysbrook Lane in the middle of the 1800's.

Thomas's marriage certificate stated that his father was Richard Lunt, a joiner.
Thomas's baptism entry stated that his parents were Richard and Hannah Lunt.

The 1851 census had the two families living next door to each other in Deys Lane, West Derby - Richard was 70 - occupation Late Joiner birthplace Wavertree, with wife Hannah, 65 - no question about this family, their son Richard and daughter Margaret were living with them, together with a "visitor" Peter Forshaw, a relation of Hannah's whose maiden name was Forshaw.

The 1841 census confirmed that Richard was a joiner, aged 60, Hannah aged 55 and their children Richard and Margaret, together with James Forshaw, Hannah's brother. Thomas and Ellen are already married and live nearby in Deys Lane.

A Mannex Directory of 1854 gives Thos Lunt Boot and Shoe Maker of Deys Lane and also Richard Lunt a shopkeeper of Deys Lane - I originally thought this must refer to the son Richard but he was a shoemaker. Richard's death certificate on 13th December, 1857 at 77 years old confirmed that he was a Grocer. No mistake about the death certificate, the informant was his son Thomas of Deys Lane. Presumably when Richard wasn't able to do the heavier work of a joiner he must have run a shop. Hannah died a week earlier on 8th December, 1857, aged 75 years.

I considered that Wavertree as given on the 1851 census for Richard's birthplace, would be considered the same area as the birthplace of Richard, son of Luke which was given on his baptism on 13th July, 1780, as Low Hill.

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So SCENARIO 1 is as above, where if I'm honest, the only firm evidence I have that Richard the adult living in West Derby is the same person as the baby baptised in 1780 is his date of birth. His marriage to Hannah in 1805 doesn't give father's names.

On the assumption that Luke was Richard's father -

It would seem a reasonable assumption that Luke was his father.

But it worried me that Richard and his wife Hannah are NOT buried there.

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While doing some other research one of the prominent names in Liverpool which kept coming to my attention was THOMAS LUNT, whose occupation was a Cooper. There are Freemen's details and trade directory entries for this Thomas Lunt, who died in January 1822.

While I was in the Lancashire Record Office I came across his Will and out of interest a obtained a copy of it

This Thomas's Will states

I give devise and bequeath unto Mary Hiscock of Liverpool aforesaid widow and my Brother Richard Lunt of West Derby near Liverpool aforesaid Joiner my Executrix and Executor hereafter named. All those my eight copyhold cottages warehouse shop and bakehouse situate and being at Wavertree near Liverpool aforesaid (which I have surrendered to the use of my Will) and also all that my freehold messuage Smithy and Garden situate in West Derby aforesaid.


Who is this Richard that was mentioned. IF it was my Richard, then this would make Thomas also a son of Luke, but Luke's son Thomas died at only two years old in 1786.

Uh Oh!!

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So SCENARIO 2

I managed to find that the grave of Thomas, the Cooper is in All Saints Church, Childwall

There are three people buried in this grave.

Grave No. 820 in All Saints Childwall
Thomas Lunt, 43 years, Abode Liverpool, died 13th January, 1822, buried 22nd January, 1822.
Richard Lunt, 23rd January, 1805
Margaret Lunt, 13th February, 1805

(The three names and dates were given to me by one of the Guides of All Saint's Childwall who checked the grave records since I wasn't allowed to. But the entry for Thomas I have copied from the Burial Register itself)

This would make Thomas's date of birth approximately 1779.

The Burial Register for All Saints, Childwall also gives the following entries.
Hannah Lunt - West Derby 12th December, 1857 - 75 years
next entry is for
Richard Lunt - West Derby 16th December, 1857 - 77 years.
The above match the death certificates for MY Richard and Hannah.

Baptism Register for All Saints, Childwall
Wavertree - Thomas - son of Richard and Margaret Lunt born 24th January 1779 and baptised 14th February 1779.
Wavertree - Richard - son of Richard and Margaret Lunt born 4th July 1780 and baptised 16th July, 1780

Marriage Register for All Saints, Childwall
Richard Lunt of the parish of Childwall, Husband man and Margret Lawranson of this parish, aforesaid Spinster married in this Church by banns this thirteenth day of April 1773.

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So which scenario would you think is mine?

I left the Record Office after finding the above although I have no doubts that there should be other children older than Thomas, perhaps even Mary who may have married "Hiscock", but I was too gutted to look any more.